rantFUJAK

So what's the thinking in regard to how best to keep these little things from littering the floor of our sites?
Whack 'em on a bit of phat bungee...?

Short length of fat bungee (with knot tied one end and other on bolt snap) seems to work ok for arrows. Pegs in thigh pocket, same system. Have seen karl store arrows under heavy rubber band wrapped around ballast of H 18w HID.

As rick said.. the only reason i carry 1 line arrow on my torch is in case of an emergency or silt out. so as to deploy fast onto the line indicating outwards with the belief that you are going to let go of the line to deal with the situation!!

Craig,

Line arrows, pegs or cookies on a piece of bungee, with a clip. Stow them in a thigh pocket on your suit or clipped off somewhere. Recommend you put your name on them all though so your team can see who's markers are who's.
I used to keep one on my light, though thought that I wouldn't really use it in an emergency.

I just use Karls :D :D :D

I have KS on one side of my arrows and the otherside has Halcyon on the other ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

RN,

Not sure if you realise but you raise a great point. Should all dive members in the team mark the line, or just one person mark it for the team....

New Thread ?

Mark it for the team, its called dive planning

Tank isthe main site in the mt you will use a number of markers at one time, whilst on a dive you want to move as swiftly through the system as you can so you want them easily and quickley accessable as possible. bunge, knot and clip is the go (as suggeted by RN) and I like it clipped on the front of me...stowed in a pocket seems like you have to open and close it all the time and IMO a pain in the "gooey"( read as arse ;D)

cookies are ok, arrows the same but pegs I find are the easiest and quickest. I buy the larger type with no spring but have the bent metal lever/spring in them

my 2$ worth

H

if I was diving in a team of 3 with Gooza and On...what are the odds that they would try and lose me??????

I'll mark my own thanks

boys here's a tip for youe pen course....just mark 1 for the team...hehhehehehehe

Think I've seen your arrows hanging up at Blue Lake Dive ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

on the 'suspended' board?

No, I think it was the "lost somewhere board" ;D

thanks all. fat bungee it is.

strangely enough the arrows I bought from Josh have a 'H' on them. He didn't have any with an 'F' !

Have to scratch off the H lest I be seen with them  ;D

Gents,
During the pen course, you will see why we peg as individuals, not as a team, especially on jumps. It is a safety issue, and those who dont fail.

I do not know if GUE, TDI, CDG or anyone else teaches different, but this is one point where the CDAA is 110% right, and any other way is wrong.

Craig,
The thick bungee is the go. Clipped off as far back as possible, but reachable. I clip off to the small D rings on the side of the transpac back bit (have a look, you will get it). When retrieving, if you have a few to collect in quick succession, peg them to your chest strap and stow them later.

JD

Just to clarify JD, I was refering to directional line markers ie arrows, not personal markers ie peg/cookies. 

Roger.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I raised the question of individually vs team line marking as it's a key difference between some Cave training agencies. The benefit of individually marking the line to me, is that it tells all divers in the team that they understand the dive plan, provides a double check of the marker placement, and in an emergency (divers separated ) can indicate the position of the other divers in the team, even when not in visual contact.
The counter argument is that it's slower ( which I don't think it is actually ), and the dive team will remain close together anyway, so one marker is suitable. I have had problems with my buddy not removing his marker ( so I left the jump installed as I thought another team was using our jump ), which was annoying, though wasn't a major problem.
For me, the benefit of all divers marking the line is greater than just one diver in the team marking it.
Ian

correct!!!!!

maybe one day I will get the chance to dive with JD in Tank

Ian, are you talking about direction arrows or cookies?

I think IT is talking personal markers. Some people use cookies or arrows, but pegs are quickest and easiest to mark junctions etc.
If each team member uses cookies to mark every jump/intersection, it would take a long time. The reason for not using pegs is they can slide down the line if the line is angled, or be moved along the line by another diver. I think common sense should prevail. In 99% of cases, a peg is sufficient. It is quick (no need to stop) easy to deploy and retrieve (just dont tell the missus how great we are with pegs) and simple. The fact they are cheap and easily available is a bonus. I use good quality pegs, and still have the original ones I stole from the basket with no rust etc. They also reduce the stress on the line at intersections.
I also carry line arrows to mark areas on the line for later exploration (ie an offshoot I want to have a look at), difficult intersections, or places where a line arrow may slide away from the junction. I also use them when I have run out of pegs!
Every diver should have a personal marker at every junction.

JD

JD,

you and I both know that when we run out of pegs, the peg holding bungee, wetnotes, anything we have, gets clipped off to use as line markers :)

I must admit, I have returned from a dive in S section to find the bungee, jump reels, wet notes, a fin, mask, all clipped off to show us the way home...
 ;D ;D ;D :o :o :o

JD

do you find that the pegs ever fall off the line??
do they slide up and down the line???

  not stirring, just that ive never used pegs and i could imagine theses things happening??


ks

nope and nope...but possible I guess..

Not usually Rick. Obviously if the line runs up to the junction, there is a chance of the peg sliding down the line, however common sense will prevail. You can either peg so it grips the line (ie put the peg right down to the pivot point, not in a 'hole' of the peg) or use an arrow. Looking at the line placement with determine which method is used.

JD

or use cookies ;D ;D ;D ;D

Sure Gooey, you can use cookies. As stated before, they take a lot longer to attach to the line, and in a 3 person team doing a lot of intersections this time can add up. Pegs are quick, simple, easy to deploy (Oh bugger it, I am just repeating myself here. Read the above posts)

Believe us, pegs are the go. You dont even slow down. I think cookies (or arrows) would be the only way to go in flow, which is probably why the US guys use them. I can see where pegs have limitations, just not in Tank. Please use cookies if you want, just dont expect me to wait.....

JD