rantFUJAK

Hi Craig et al,

Have the new regulations for Kilsby's been formally announced yet?  I haven't seen anything on the forum.

I'm sure the requirement of having "MINIMUM of 3 divers are IN THE WATER at all times" will open up a can of worms and no doubt you've copped a enquiries already, but it sounds like something the landowner might have insisted on after the incident last year.

A couple I can think of:
1. Only 2 divers booked for the afternoon, must be cancelled.
2. If 2 guys are still deep and another group have finished, someone must stay in the water, even if on the surface. 
3. Any groups of 2 must coordinate with others and start the dive at the same time, also finish at the same time. I'd hate to be a relatively new diver telling an Adv Cave he must finish early as I don't want a long dive!
Thoughts from others?

To me having a 3rd person either in the water or on the pontoon with gear available makes more sense. If I've finished I'd rather get out, get the gear off and rest on the chairs instead of face down on the surface watching someone finish a long deco.

Anyway, I'm diving there this weekend so will let you know how it goes :)

Steve

By the looks of it you will have to suck-up big time to one of the other divers  :P

What dive plan you planing on doing ? deco ? % ?  ???

Depends on the other groups!
Sunday morning will be the bigger dive, it's fully booked so perhaps  deco no more than 20min with 50%.
Monday it's just us and a Deep Cavern course, so shorter dive, minimal deco. 

Do you know any of the others ?

Hey Steve
I don't think Rob has announced the new access/diving conditions as yet.

I haven't as I don't want to be seen to intercede into what is really the Site Director's role, but have said I'm happy to do so if requested. As he is in Sydney for Oztek I can't see it happening this weekend.

Discussion is ongoing as to how best to manage the landowner's requirement for 3 in-water divers at all times due to the liklihood of differeing dive plans between groups.

C

i can feel a whole bunch of bullshit coming on

Three persons is the optimum size in terms of general team resources and safe gas planning. ;)

You make me laugh Ricky, you really do. Your humour is A1. ;D

JD

now i wonder who told him that!!!!!!!!!!!!

+1 mate... nice dig!

In regards to the new rule - does anyone know the purpose behind the new rule? Is it supposed to be a deterrent to those tempted to do the wrong thing, a safety precaution, or so there is more than one account should another accident arise? Was it the landowners request, or is it a new CDAA requirement that might spread to other sites too? And yes... before you ask, I wanna know what color underwear you're wearing too!  :P

My guess its a landowner thing. If there was someone else there they may have been able to help. My suggestion is be very wary of who you dive with..... Make sure your buddy observes air rules. Dont get entangled. If you do, keep cutting until you are free. It all works though, maybe the first person booked on becomes the safety diver who just sits on the surface until required.

JD

Big pile of bullshit!!!!(Ph, i should be sick to agree with you)

do we have to give them the detailed diet before and after the dive.....

This rule wont stop accidents in any way, if something happens at 45m the diver at the surface is going to do what, descent again and get in the risk of being under a long decompression, getting without air... this doesn't make any sense. Rick agree with you about the planning and gas management, but we cannot obligate people to dive the way we do within an association that does not teach these particular rules.The dive preparation and planning should be made the away CDAA courses are taught, where even solo diving is "allowed". There are a lot of incongruencies in this process.

Cheers

AS

Was my comment above "...manage the landowner's requirement..." not sufficiently clear then?

C

Hi Craig,


You know... I looked a few times again, and only on the 3rd re-read did I see it. Maybe my wife is right about me needing to have a 'womans look' when I try to find the damn sauce in the pantry!  :) Thanks for clarifying my confusion.

If it's a landowners requirements, then I guess the why's, etc don't really matter. If they want us to do star jumps before getting in the water, then we comply or don't dive there. I think we need to remember that access is a privileged and not a right, and try to comply with the land owners requests as much as possible. In the end, 3 divers in the water instead of two will be a PITA for some divers, but it's really not a huge amount to ask for in the long run...

Personally - I would be interested in their reasoning, as I too don't understand the merit behind it -but I also won't question or argue the matter either. Right, wrong or otherwise it's their land, and we're probably lucky to still have access to Kilsby's after last years accident and if this is what we need to do to maintain access, then so be it. Although if they are open to negotiation and education, maybe there is a better way to meet the same objective they're after?

No doubt questions will be raised on the CDAA Forum when it gets announced & the reasons behind the decision may never be understood or accepted by us as divers. You're correct in that it's the Kilsby's land & we are indeed fortunate to be able to dive such a spectacular site.

One needs to bear in mind that the landowners are not divers & notwithstanding they have a site on their property a lot of what we do in there is quite foreign to them. From my discussion with ST there was extensive negotiation in order to secure our continued access and on this point the landowner was not prepared to move.

C

Spot on there ad, if they want us to only drive on the property in reverse there will probably be less trailers at the site 'cos that is what we will do. Sounds like the requirements are a little bit of a pain, but a small preice to pay really.

JD

Having dived at Kilsby over the weekend under the new arrangements, it's only a pain if there are 2 small groups of 2 with very different dive plans.  Anything else pretty much works out.
If you want a long dive, gear up quickly and be ready to go as soon as another group is ready.

However, it will require more coordination with dive plans to make sure the requirements are met, which isn't such a bad thing.  People will need to say how long their dive will be, work it out with everyone and then stick to it.    If you're the last 2 in the water doing massive deco, you're forcing some poor bugger to be floating around up top. 

My impression was that it's a landowner requirement so that's just the way it is.  I was also led to believe the lease had not been paid for quite some time, so we're lucky to be diving the site at all.

Craig - is this open for discussion on the cdaa forum or would you prefer an official announcement from the directors?   I know Rob's away but I'm surprised nobody has officially announced it with updated guidelines for the on-site coordinator.

I'd prefer to give Rob an opportunity to announce it first & the Directorate to decide how it's going to handle the 3 in-water requirement. Then it's open slather.

Rob wasn't coming back until today I think & I'm aware there was a Directors meeting during Oztek.

C

Steve

Now officially announced on the CDAA Forum - knock yourself out ;)

C