|
Title: Ratio Deco Post by: PMH on August 19, 2008, 03:07:08 PM Ok people....
how about a speal on ratio deco.......a bit of a please explain Title: Re: Ratio Deco Post by: onwardsupwards on August 19, 2008, 04:29:13 PM Best written explanation I've seen. http://teamfoxturd.blogspot.com/2007/04/tech1-ratio-deco-explained.html (http://teamfoxturd.blogspot.com/2007/04/tech1-ratio-deco-explained.html)
Title: Re: Ratio Deco Post by: PMH on August 19, 2008, 04:40:38 PM Best written explanation I've seen. http://teamfoxturd.blogspot.com/2007/04/tech1-ratio-deco-explained.html (http://teamfoxturd.blogspot.com/2007/04/tech1-ratio-deco-explained.html) frinted it off for a read...looks interesting ta I do like team 'foxturd'.....I know a few DIR guys who could call themselves 'team dogturd' who is the founder of ratio deco by the way when you are on the link check out the pic of Badger!....mask on backwards...seriously this is getting rediculous Title: Re: Ratio Deco Post by: leaky on August 19, 2008, 07:37:22 PM jeez PH have you been converted? thanks for asking!
Title: Re: Ratio Deco Post by: PMH on August 19, 2008, 09:32:24 PM jeez PH have you been converted? thanks for asking! no no no.....I am always interested in diving stuff...and I am aware of the 'deco on the run' stuff...but a link on dive oz sparked my question....foxturd site seems interesting though....I just don't want to dive like a ninja! Title: Re: Ratio Deco Post by: Gooey on August 20, 2008, 07:05:01 AM at this point harvs, i guess you dont care how you dive, you just want 2 be able to dive somewhere ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ratio Deco Post by: PMH on August 20, 2008, 07:21:03 AM at this point harvs, i guess you dont care how you dive, you just want 2 be able to dive somewhere ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D until you pass your pen course...at this point I wouldn't be such a smart ass about diving, when you are rated to dive as deep as myself and have done so safely then you can shitme about diving, when you look as good as I do in a 3mm, then you can still shit me about diving, so until you have acheived these things shut the f**k up. but your write I wouln't mind a fresh water dive! fuck it ;D Title: Re: Ratio Deco Post by: JD on August 20, 2008, 06:28:39 PM until you pass your pen course...at this point I wouldn't be such a smart ass about diving, when you are rated to dive as deep as myself and have done so safely then you can shitme about diving, when you look as good as I do in a 3mm, then you can still shit me about diving, so until you have acheived these things shut the f**k up. Gee Paul, getting a little precious in your old age! I didnt see anyone there attacking your diving credentials, or the way you dive, just the fact you cant. FACT: You cant dive fresh water due to your suspension, and you cant dive salty due to your involuntary need to evacuate your stomach when a boat hits surface ripples. I sympathise with you tiger, but these guys did not just do what you accused them of. Good luck to all on the pen course. It is designed to trip you up, and some very good divers have come unstuck, so passing is certainly something to be proud of. JD Title: Re: Ratio Deco Post by: PMH on August 20, 2008, 07:36:53 PM until you pass your pen course...at this point I wouldn't be such a smart ass about diving, when you are rated to dive as deep as myself and have done so safely then you can shitme about diving, when you look as good as I do in a 3mm, then you can still shit me about diving, so until you have acheived these things shut the f**k up. Gee Paul, getting a little precious in your old age! I didnt see anyone there attacking your diving credentials, or the way you dive, just the fact you cant. FACT: You cant dive fresh water due to your suspension, and you cant dive salty due to your involuntary need to evacuate your stomach when a boat hits surface ripples. I sympathise with you tiger, but these guys did not just do what you accused them of. Good luck to all on the pen course. It is designed to trip you up, and some very good divers have come unstuck, so passing is certainly something to be proud of. JD I was planting my tougne in my cheek when I was typing that reply, hence my last sentence...I believe in other posts I have wished them luck who's being.......? Title: Re: Ratio Deco Post by: onwardsupwards on August 20, 2008, 09:00:34 PM From "Deeper into Diving" Why worry about getting DCI?
Quote"A issue that frequently troubles divers is the possibility of long term adverse effects, even in the absence of having suffered obvious decompression illness. Much of the research done in this area has been of poor quality, and extreme care is needed in interpreting the results. Many anecdotal descriptions of long term effects and almost all of the relevant studies pertain to commercial rather than recreational divers. Furthermore, although various studies have identified phenomena (such as small brain lesions detected by advanced scanning techniques) that are suggestive of tissue injury due to some unnoticed event (probably bubble formation) during commercial and recreational diving, it remains true that no study in recreational divers has yet shown that diving actually produces any problems that might impair the divers function in daily living. We do not dismiss this possibility however, and this is an area of research that will be watched with interest over the next decade."Unquote. They should save themselves some money on research and just check out some of the posts on this forum ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Title: Re: Ratio Deco Post by: PMH on August 21, 2008, 08:33:57 AM ok so I read the ratio deco article from the foturd divers so here goes....
withsatnding my views of the GUE community what a load of garbage.........why the hell should a diver have to do so much mathematical calculation to create a run time on the go is beyond me AND possibly dangerous....sorry but I am happy with my computer doing the calcs for me with my back up preplanned runtime with bottom timer if needed. As far as I am concerned ratio deco is NOT Doing It Right but darn right riduculous and an unnesessary way of dive planning and deco I would rather put my life in the hands of Ross Hemmingway than a couple of redneck yanks who think they are better and just want to be different...I say take your ratio deco and jamb it up your 'Wakulla spring' but hey I may not really understand it ;D ps On you could be right!! ??? Title: Re: Ratio Deco Post by: onwardsupwards on August 21, 2008, 10:42:52 AM ok so I read the ratio deco article from the foturd divers so here goes.... withsatnding my views of the GUE community what a load of garbage.........why the hell should a diver have to do so much mathematical calculation to create a run time on the go is beyond me AND possibly dangerous....sorry but I am happy with my computer doing the calcs for me with my back up preplanned runtime with bottom timer if needed. As far as I am concerned ratio deco is NOT Doing It Right but darn right riduculous and an unnesessary way of dive planning and deco I would rather put my life in the hands of Ross Hemmingway than a couple of redneck yanks who think they are better and just want to be different...I say take your ratio deco and jamb it up your 'Wakulla spring' but hey I may not really understand it ;D ps On you could be right!! ??? Paul, The calculations may seem complicated but are actually quite simple. Compare the same dive plans to Decoplanner software and the plans are very close, maybe changing some areas to incorporate deep stops. We put our dive plans through Deco planner for safety, do the comparisons then set and forget. The ability to be able to easily change plans on the fly is a safety benifit in my view. No computers, no slates, no wetnotes, no multiple backup plans required. Not for everyone but good for me Title: Re: Ratio Deco Post by: onwardsupwards on August 21, 2008, 02:21:07 PM Simple example Dive to 45m for 20mins BT, 21/35 back gas ,50%02 from 21m
20mins bt = 20 mins deco, 10 mins spread between 21m to 9m stops the other 10 mins between 6 & 3 m Stops between 21 & 9 can be linear ie 2mins @ each stop 21 - 2 18 - 2 15 - 2 12 - 2 9 - 2 or S curve to take advantage of oxygen window 21 - 4 18 - 2 15 - 1 12 - 1 9 - 2 On a not so aggressive dive such as this linear is fine Then spread last 10 mins between 6 & 3 m say 6 - 6 3 - 4 Then slow ascent from 3 Simple and easy to remember, if you change bottom time or depth ,adjust accordingly as per information on other site, not going to go into it here unless asked. Only to be used within parameters of Tech 1 dives with standard gases, thats where the training comes in, ie when to use it or not. Title: Re: Ratio Deco Post by: PMH on August 21, 2008, 03:07:36 PM Simple example Dive to 45m for 20mins BT, 21/35 back gas ,50%02 from 21m 20mins bt = 20 mins deco, 10 mins spread between 21m to 9m stops the other 10 mins between 6 & 3 m Stops between 21 & 9 can be linear ie 2mins @ each stop 21 - 2 18 - 2 15 - 2 12 - 2 9 - 2 or S curve to take advantage of oxygen window 21 - 4 18 - 2 15 - 1 12 - 1 9 - 2 On a not so aggressive dive such as this linear is fine Then spread last 10 mins between 6 & 3 m say 6 - 6 3 - 4 Then slow ascent from 3 Simple and easy to remember, if you change bottom time or depth ,adjust accordingly as per information on other site, not going to go into it here unless asked. Only to be used within parameters of Tech 1 dives with standard gases, thats where the training comes in, ie when to use it or not. wow there's $5k worth Title: Re: Ratio Deco Post by: onwardsupwards on August 21, 2008, 05:37:11 PM Sorry, thought you were after explanation & discussion, not cost/benefit analysis. Silly me ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Ratio Deco Post by: JD on August 21, 2008, 07:44:11 PM Sorry, thought you were after explanation & discussion, not cost/benefit analysis. Silly me ::) ::) ::) :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Title: Re: Ratio Deco Post by: PMH on August 21, 2008, 07:51:58 PM Sorry, thought you were after explanation & discussion, not cost/benefit analysis. Silly me ::) ::) ::) oh I got it...just think....well big deal, maths on the run while diving....like I said I would rather work my plan out before the dive and carry bailout run times...I see it as annoying not beneficial the cost benefit analysis is important, to pay that sort of money to learn that while breathing He to 45m is nothing short of 'theft by deception' Title: Re: Ratio Deco Post by: JD on August 21, 2008, 08:21:46 PM I think what you need to do Harvs is seperate the GUE Money Genie from the actual idea. Apart from the $$$ spent to have this info, the information itself is quite valid. Obviously I cant use it, but I can certainly see how it is useful.
The problem with todays divers is they rely on equipment telling them what they can and cant do, without really understanding why. Apart from the usual 'you must do a safety stop or you will get the bends' mantra that is so prevalent in courses (read:PADI), most people have NFI as to WHY they must stop. I think something which puts the onus back on the diver to actually understand what is going on can only be a good thing. Now, in saying all this, most things evolve. Do we not put electronic stability control and ABS in cars in favour of better driver training? Sure, a well trained and practised driver can overcome the obstacles without electronic aids, but they are better for the average driver, have faster reaction times, and save many more lives than driver training ever will. Does that mean we stop teaching skid control and proper braking techniques? No. In my opinion I can control a skidding car and unlock wheels locked under brakes by releasing the pedal a little, but I damn sure appreciate that I dont have to. Same thing here. I appreciate not having to calculate deco, but teaching someone to do it can only be good. Thoughts anyone? JD Title: Re: Ratio Deco Post by: PMH on August 21, 2008, 08:48:02 PM most people have NFI as to WHY they must stop
I think that is crap! I have no doubt ratio deco works!...but tech training teaches decompression diving...tables etc....then we have the future come our way being software programs....now GUE tell us to carry an abacus with us (how does one clip them off and on which side) come on someone is jurking someones chain and making a good dollar for it... Title: Re: Ratio Deco Post by: Ian T on August 22, 2008, 08:06:44 AM Software programs don't work underwater with multiple gases, without having all the data written down.
There really is no point discussing this with you PH, as you've already closed your mind of to it and consider a new idea. Lets not use your massive experience of deep trimix diving to justify a position either. Did you know how much gas you were actually going to use in the bottom portion of your dive ? And hence what happens if you lose one of your deco gases ? Ratio Deco is a quick way to work it out. As RN said, the maths is easy. I'm sure you do harder maths in your workplace each day. Even driving to Mt Gambier. Car full of fuel, 80 litres, 400 km drive, 100 km / hr, = 4 hrs drive, if using 10L/ 100 km, will use 40L of fuel, so should get to Mt G with half a tank. Whats hard about that ? Same with diving. You can plan your deco, how long it will last, and other things like what happens if you lose deco gas. Plus if it's standardised, each dive just becomes an extension of previous skills or numbers. Title: Re: Ratio Deco Post by: PMH on August 22, 2008, 03:06:22 PM Software programs don't work underwater with multiple gases they do in a VR3 Nitek He etc, without having all the data written down. what's wrong with that There really is no point discussing this with you PH, as you've already closed your mind of to it bullshit I csoed my mind after reading the article then chose to make a decision on it asked JD I rang him that day before I had read it to get his viewand consider a new idea you have no basisi to make this statement. Lets not use your massive experience of deep trimix diving to justify a position eitherthis dig has no relevence to the issue however I think I have enough deco experience to justify an opinion probably more than you. Did you know how much gas you were actually going to use in the bottom portion of your dive ? And hence what happens if you lose one of your deco gases ? Ratio Deco is a quick way to work it out.V-planner has lost gas senarious you no that as we went through it on our ER course As RN said, the maths is easy what happens if the shit hits the fan on the dive who's adding numbers then. I'm sure you do harder maths in your workplace each day. Even driving to Mt Gambier. Car full of fuel, 80 litres, 400 km drive, 100 km / hr, = 4 hrs drive, if using 10L/ 100 km, will use 40L of fuel, so should get to Mt G with half a tank.if you do this in reality you are a flog I leave with a full tank and watch my gauge not hard Whats hard about that ? Same with diving. You can plan your deco, how long it will last, and other things like what happens if you lose deco gas. Plus if it's standardised, each dive just becomes an extension of previous skills or numbers. Ian prove to me that this is better, safer, then using a computer with a back up bottom timer with run times and back ups and I might change my view otherwise this is another example just playing follow the f*****g leader |